+ Odgovori na temu
Stranica 1 od 2 1 2 PosljednjePosljednje
Prikaz rezultata str. 1/24

Tema: Judaizam

  1. #1
    Vlastelinka ZGabriel avatar
    Datum registracije
    Mar 2012
    Lokacija
    čudesni oblaci
    Poruke
    18,889
    Blog Entries
    4

    Judaizam

    mislim da nam je nedostajala ova tema, jer su to naši korijeni.
    ako ste čitali Stari zavjet, sve znate.

    danas je Dan pomirenja po židovskom kalendaru, iliti Jom kipur (יוֹם כִּפּוּר), najsvetiji dan u godini.

    “Jer toga dana On će vam oprostiti, očistiti vas da budete čisti od svih svojih grijeha pred B_gom” (Levitski zakonik 16:30). Toga dana završava desetodnevni period Velikih blagdana koji obuhvaća Roš Hašanu i Jom Kipur, poznat kao Jomim Noraim (Strašni Dani) u kojem nastojimo promijeniti naše ponašanje te se kajemo za sve loše počinjeno prema B_gu i ljudima.

    Jom Kipur je najsvečaniji dio godine, a prožima ga tiha radost, radost koja proizlazi iz duhovnosti dana te izražava naše uvjerenje da će B_g prihvatiti naše pokajanje, oprostiti naše grijehe i zapečatiti našu presudu u Knjizi Života donoseći nam zdravlje i sreću.
    za razliku od ostalih blagdana, Roš hašana i Jom kipur odstupaju od uobičajenog (poljoprivrednog) kalendara. na današnji dan Mojsije se vratio sa Sinaja sa novim parom ploča u koje su urezane Božje zapovijedi.

    Ti nisi ono što jesi sad, nego ono što tek možeš biti! Ti si trenutno žir, ali smisao tvog života je biti hrast! ~ T. Ivančić

    יֵשׁ מֵאַיִן

  2. #2
    Tora je pisani zakon, a Talmud usmeni koji se prenosio generacijama. Volio bih pročitati Talmud da vidim kaj tam piše. Stari Zavjet je poznat, ali Talmud i ne baš tolko.

  3. #3
    Vlastelinka ZGabriel avatar
    Datum registracije
    Mar 2012
    Lokacija
    čudesni oblaci
    Poruke
    18,889
    Blog Entries
    4
    Citiraj Prvotno napisano od Grunf Vidi poruku
    Tora je pisani zakon, a Talmud usmeni koji se prenosio generacijama. Volio bih pročitati Talmud da vidim kaj tam piše. Stari Zavjet je poznat, ali Talmud i ne baš tolko.
    kako kome.

    zezam se, nabavila sam knjigu u antikvarijatu, ali ozbiljna literatura još čeka.
    Ti nisi ono što jesi sad, nego ono što tek možeš biti! Ti si trenutno žir, ali smisao tvog života je biti hrast! ~ T. Ivančić

    יֵשׁ מֵאַיִן

  4. #4
    Baš me zanima, videl sam da postoje kontroverzne stvari tam nutra.

  5. #5
    Vlastelinka ZGabriel avatar
    Datum registracije
    Mar 2012
    Lokacija
    čudesni oblaci
    Poruke
    18,889
    Blog Entries
    4
    Citiraj Prvotno napisano od Grunf Vidi poruku
    Baš me zanima, videl sam da postoje kontroverzne stvari tam nutra.
    i mene zanima, ali to su spisi rabina i njihova tumačenja. mislim da Biblija ipak ima veću težinu.
    Ti nisi ono što jesi sad, nego ono što tek možeš biti! Ti si trenutno žir, ali smisao tvog života je biti hrast! ~ T. Ivančić

    יֵשׁ מֵאַיִן

  6. #6
    Citiraj Prvotno napisano od ZGabriel Vidi poruku
    i mene zanima, ali to su spisi rabina i njihova tumačenja. mislim da Biblija ipak ima veću težinu.
    Kako za koga. Za kršćane definitivno. Za ostale, uključujući Židove, i ne baš. Talmud nije usmeno bla bla nego pismeno. I za Židove ima puno veću težinu od Biblije. Moram priznat da ne razumim baš ono o "našim korijenima" iz uvodnog posta. Ko smo to "mi"? Kršćani svih denominacija, Katolici ili Hrvati?

  7. #7
    Talmud je usmena tradicija tek u drugom stoljeću zapisana pismeno. Farizeji su dali prednost usmenoj tradiciji pred pisanom jer su smatrali zapisano mrtvim slovom na papiru, a usmeno živom riječi koja raste i razvija se. No, zbog progona pismoznanaca morali su to zapisati da ostane za buduće generacije. To sam jučer pročital.

  8. #8
    Vlastelinka ZGabriel avatar
    Datum registracije
    Mar 2012
    Lokacija
    čudesni oblaci
    Poruke
    18,889
    Blog Entries
    4
    Citiraj Prvotno napisano od Picaferaj Vidi poruku
    Kako za koga. Za kršćane definitivno. Za ostale, uključujući Židove, i ne baš. Talmud nije usmeno bla bla nego pismeno. I za Židove ima puno veću težinu od Biblije. Moram priznat da ne razumim baš ono o "našim korijenima" iz uvodnog posta. Ko smo to "mi"? Kršćani svih denominacija, Katolici ili Hrvati?
    podforum Religija, većina članova kršćani. pogađaj.
    Ti nisi ono što jesi sad, nego ono što tek možeš biti! Ti si trenutno žir, ali smisao tvog života je biti hrast! ~ T. Ivančić

    יֵשׁ מֵאַיִן

  9. #9
    Citiraj Prvotno napisano od ZGabriel Vidi poruku
    podforum Religija, većina članova kršćani. pogađaj.
    Podforum je religija, većina ovdje jesu kršćani ali i katolici i Hrvati...a tema je judaizam pa mi nije lako pogoditi. Pomagaj..jer bi moga pomisliti da Hrvati i Filipinci imaju iste/zajedničke korijene.
    Posljednje uređivanje od Picaferaj : 19-09-2018 at 16:32

  10. #10
    Citiraj Prvotno napisano od Grunf Vidi poruku
    Talmud je usmena tradicija tek u drugom stoljeću zapisana pismeno. Farizeji su dali prednost usmenoj tradiciji pred pisanom jer su smatrali zapisano mrtvim slovom na papiru, a usmeno živom riječi koja raste i razvija se. No, zbog progona pismoznanaca morali su to zapisati da ostane za buduće generacije. To sam jučer pročital.
    I većina starog zavjeta je prvo bila usmena. Pa je sada pismena.

  11. #11
    Vlastelinka ZGabriel avatar
    Datum registracije
    Mar 2012
    Lokacija
    čudesni oblaci
    Poruke
    18,889
    Blog Entries
    4
    Citiraj Prvotno napisano od Picaferaj Vidi poruku
    Podforum je religija, većina ovdje jesu kršćani ali i katolici i Hrvati...a tema je judaizam pa mi nije lako pogoditi. Pomagaj..jer bi moga pomisliti da Hrvati i Filipinci imaju iste/zajedničke korijene.
    ako su kršćani, imaju.
    ako ti je dosadno, odi na pecanje. pisanje na ovoj temi je dobrovoljno.

    ako si Filipinac, bravo, odlično ti ide hrvatski.
    Ti nisi ono što jesi sad, nego ono što tek možeš biti! Ti si trenutno žir, ali smisao tvog života je biti hrast! ~ T. Ivančić

    יֵשׁ מֵאַיִן

  12. #12
    Citiraj Prvotno napisano od ZGabriel Vidi poruku
    ako su kršćani, imaju.
    ako ti je dosadno, odi na pecanje. pisanje na ovoj temi je dobrovoljno.

    ako si Filipinac, bravo, odlično ti ide hrvatski.
    Nisam Filipinac. Pa je valjda to razlog zašto ne kužim ono o težini Biblije za Kršćane na temi o Judaizmu. OK, sad kužim da si mislila na kršćane ali mi daj tvoje mišljenje o težini Biblije i Talmuda za Židove. Šta njima, po tvom mišljenju, ima "veću težinu"? A, ako ti je poznato zašto im je jedno "teže" od drugoga nemoj se ustručavat, reci i to. Nije mi dosadno. Pecanje mi je dosadno pa zato nikad ne pecam.

  13. #13
    Vlastelinka ZGabriel avatar
    Datum registracije
    Mar 2012
    Lokacija
    čudesni oblaci
    Poruke
    18,889
    Blog Entries
    4
    Citiraj Prvotno napisano od Picaferaj Vidi poruku
    Nisam Filipinac. Pa je valjda to razlog zašto ne kužim ono o težini Biblije za Kršćane na temi o Judaizmu. OK, sad kužim da si mislila na kršćane ali mi daj tvoje mišljenje o težini Biblije i Talmuda za Židove. Šta njima, po tvom mišljenju, ima "veću težinu"? A, ako ti je poznato zašto im je jedno "teže" od drugoga nemoj se ustručavat, reci i to. Nije mi dosadno. Pecanje mi je dosadno pa zato nikad ne pecam.
    meni se čini da ti ipak je dosadno.
    meni kao katolkinji je judaizam zanimljiv jer s njima dijelimo Stari zavjet. dakle, sve ono što je tamo zapisano, vrijedi za mene kao i za nekog Židova. bez Starog zavjeta nema ni Novog > korijeni

    Talmud je zbirka, najprije usmena, pa pismena, tumačenja Svetog pisma, običaja, zakona. zato je SZ "teži" jer bez njega ne bi bilo ni Talmuda. Talmud je praktična nadogradnja, ali temelj je Tora.
    Ti nisi ono što jesi sad, nego ono što tek možeš biti! Ti si trenutno žir, ali smisao tvog života je biti hrast! ~ T. Ivančić

    יֵשׁ מֵאַיִן

  14. #14
    Citiraj Prvotno napisano od ZGabriel Vidi poruku
    meni se čini da ti ipak je dosadno.
    meni kao katolkinji je judaizam zanimljiv jer s njima dijelimo Stari zavjet. dakle, sve ono što je tamo zapisano, vrijedi za mene kao i za nekog Židova. bez Starog zavjeta nema ni Novog > korijeni

    Talmud je zbirka, najprije usmena, pa pismena, tumačenja Svetog pisma, običaja, zakona. zato je SZ "teži" jer bez njega ne bi bilo ni Talmuda. Talmud je praktična nadogradnja, ali temelj je Tora.
    Ma tko zna- zna.

  15. #15
    Citiraj Prvotno napisano od ZGabriel Vidi poruku
    meni se čini da ti ipak je dosadno.
    meni kao katolkinji je judaizam zanimljiv jer s njima dijelimo Stari zavjet. dakle, sve ono što je tamo zapisano, vrijedi za mene kao i za nekog Židova. bez Starog zavjeta nema ni Novog > korijeni

    Talmud je zbirka, najprije usmena, pa pismena, tumačenja Svetog pisma, običaja, zakona. zato je SZ "teži" jer bez njega ne bi bilo ni Talmuda. Talmud je praktična nadogradnja, ali temelj je Tora.
    Može se to tako reći. A može se reći i da sam ja Hrvat i da sa Židovima nemam nikakve veze jer su Židovi odabrani narod a Hrvati nisu. Kad već spominješ "tumačenja Svetog pisma, običaja, zakona"...evo nekih.

    The Accusation
    Insults Against Blessed Mary, Sanhedrin 106a, says Jesus’ mother was a whore: “She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters.” Also in footnote #2 to Shabbat 104b it is stated that in the “uncensored” text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, “Miriam the hairdresser,” had sex with many men.

    “Jesus was a bastard born of adultery.” (Yebamoth 49b, p.324).

    “Mary was a whore: Jesus (Balaam) was an evil man.” (Sanhedrin 106a &b, p.725).

    “Jesus was a magician and a fool. Mary was an adulteress”. (Shabbath 104b, p.504).


    John 8:44 New International Version (NIV)
    44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

    New International Version (NIV)
    Posljednje uređivanje od Picaferaj : 24-09-2018 at 14:08

  16. #16
    Vlastelinka ZGabriel avatar
    Datum registracije
    Mar 2012
    Lokacija
    čudesni oblaci
    Poruke
    18,889
    Blog Entries
    4
    Talmud - Mas. Sanhedrin 106a

    is renewed1 and its roots are numerous, and even if all the winds of the world come and blow upon it they cannot dislodge it from its place, but it sways in unison with them, and as soon as the winds subside, the reed still stands in its place, [so may Israel be]. But the wicked Balaam blessed them by the cedar:2 just as the cedar does not stand in a watery place, and its roots are few and its stock is not renewed, and even if all the winds of the world come and blow upon it they cannot stir it from its place, but immediately the South wind blows upon it it uproots and overturns it on its face, [so may Israel be]. Nay, more, it was the reed's privilege that a quill thereof should be taken for the writing of the Scroll of the Torah, Prophets and Hagiographa. And he looked on the Kenite, and took up his parable.3 Balaam said to Jethro, 'Thou Kenite, wast thou not with us in that scheme?4 Who then placed thee among the strong ones of the world!'5 And that is what R. Hiyya b. Abba said in R. Simai's name: Three were involved in that scheme,6 viz., Balaam, Job, and Jethro. Balaam, who advised it, was slain; Job, who was silent,7 was punished through suffering; and Jethro, who fled - his descendants were privileged to sit in the Hall of Hewn Stones, as it is written, And the families of the scribes which dwell at Jabez, the Tirathites, the Shemeathites, and Suchathites. These are the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab;8 whilst elsewhere it is written, And the children of the Kenite, Moses' father in law, went up out of the city of palm trees.9

    And he took up his parable, and said, Alas, who shall live when God doeth this!10 R. Simeon b. Lakish said: Woe unto him who maketh himself alive by the name of God,11 R. Johanan said: Woe to the nation that may be found [attempting to hinder], when the Holy One, blessed be He, accomplishes the redemption of his children: who would throw his garment between a lion and a lioness when these are copulating!12

    And ships shall come from the coast of Chittim.13 Rab said: This refers to the White Legion.14 And shall afflict Asshur, and shall afflict Eber:15 Until Asshur, they shall slay; after that, they shall throw into subjection.16

    And now, behold I go unto my people; come, therefore, and I will advertise thee what this people shall do to thy people in the latter days.17 But he should have said, What thy people shall do to this people?18 - R. Abba b. Kahana said: It is as one who, cursing himself, refers his malediction to others.19 He [Balaam] said thus to him [Balak]. 'The God of these hates lewdness, and they are very partial to linen.20 Come, and I will advise thee. Erect for them tents enclosed by hangings, in which place harlots, old women without, young women within, to sell them linen garments.' So he erected curtained tents from the snowy mountain [Hermon] as far as Beth ha-Yeshimoth [i.e., right from north to south], and placed harlots in them - old women without, young women within. And when an Israelite ate, drank, and was merry, and issued forth for a stroll in the market place, the old woman would say to him, 'Dost thou not desire linen garments?' The old woman offered it at its current value, but the young one for less. This happened two or three times. After that she would say to him, 'Thou art now like one of the family; sit down and choose for thyself.' Gourds of Ammonite wine lay near her, and at that time Ammonite21 and heathen wine had not yet been forbidden. Said she to him, 'Wouldst thou like to drink a glass of wine?' Having drunk, [his passion] was inflamed, and he exclaimed to her, 'Yield to me!' Thereupon she brought forth an idol from her bosom and said to him, 'Worship this'! 'But I am a Jew', he protested. 'What does that concern thee?' she rejoined, 'nothing is required but that thou should uncover thyself' - whilst he did not know that such was its worship. 'Nay', [said she,] 'I will not leave thee ere thou hast denied the Torah of Moses thy teacher,' as it is written, They went into Baal-peor, and separated themselves unto that shame, and their abominations were according as they loved.22

    And Israel abode in Shittim.23 R. Eliezer said: Its name was Shittim. R. Joshua said: They engaged in ways of folly [shetuth],24 And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods:25 R. Eliezer said: They met them naked;26 R. Joshua said: They were all excited to pollution.27

    What is the meaning of Rephidim?28 - R. Eliezer said: Rephidim was its name. R. Joshua said: [It was so called] because there they slackened in [their loyalty to] the Torah, as it is written, The fathers shall not look back to their children for feebleness of hands.29

    R. Johanan said: Wherever [Scripture] writes 'And he abode [or dwelt]', it denotes trouble, Thus: And Israel abode in Shittim - and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab;30 And Jacob dwelt in the laid where his father was a stranger, in the land of Canaan -31 and Joseph brought unto his father their evil report;32 And Israel dwelt in the land of Egypt, in the country of Goshen -33 And the time drew near that Israel must die;34 And Judah and Israel dwelt safely, every man under his vine and under his fig tree -35 And the Lord stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite; he was the king's seed in Edom.36

    And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain . . . Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.37 What business had Balaam there? - R. Jonathan said: He went to receive his reward for the twenty-four thousand Israelites whose destruction he had encompassed.38 Mar Zutra b. Tobiah remarked in Rab's name: This is what men say, 'When the camel went to demand horns, they cut off the ears he had.'39

    Balaam also the son of Beor, the soothsayer, [did the children of Israel slay with the sword].40 A soothsayer? But he was a prophet! - R. Johanan said: At first he was a prophet, but subsequently a soothsayer.41 R. Papa observed: This is what men say, 'She who was the descendant of princes and governors, played the harlot with carpenters.'42

    ____________________
    (1) It grows again after it is cut down,
    (2) Deut. XXIV, 6, quoted above.
    (3) Num. XXIV, 21.
    (4) To destroy Israel through Pharoah's decree: Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river - Ex. I, 22 - Of course thou wast!
    (5) A metaphor for the Sanhedrin situated in the Hall of Hewn Stones, which counted amongst its members Jethro's descendants. That is the meaning of Strong is thy dwelling place.
    (6) V. n. 2.
    (7) Not voicing his disapproval.
    (8) I Chron. II, 55.
    (9) Judges I, 16.
    (10) Num, XXIV, 23.
    (11) משמו אל is read משמו אל [Herford, op. cit. 74ff. sees in this a covert allusion to Jesus.]
    (12) So also, woe to the nation that would come between God and Israel when He is redeeming them to bring them to Himself
    (13) Ibid. 24.
    (14) [ליכון אספיר. So Levy, adopting the reading ליכון (**) אספר (**). Funk, Schwarz Festschrift, p. 248, takes אספר as the Persian aswar, 'knight', and renders 'a legion of knights', (cf. Lat. ferreus equitatus). The verse is accordingly interpreted: 'Legions will come from the Coast of Chittim, etc.' the Chittim being taken to denote Rome, (cf. Targ. Yerushalmi a.l.]. Jastrow regards the whole passage as an interpolation of the eighth or ninth century, and as referring to Leo the Isaurian, the Byzantine Emperor, leader of the iconoclastic movement which caused a long war between the East and the West of the Empire.
    (15) Ibid.
    (16) The nations which shall conquer each other - referred to in the words 'and ships' shall, up to Asshur, completely destroy the defeated. But after that a victorious nation shall merely enthral its victim, but not destroy it.
    (17) Ibid. 14.
    (18) According to Rabbinic tradition, he advised the Moabites to ensnare Israel through unchastity. Thus, he was referring to an action by the former to the latter, whilst Scripture suggests the reverse.
    (19) I.e., makes others the object thereof, though meaning himself, so Scripture, alluding to Israel's disgrace, makes it appear that the allusion is really to Moab.
    (20) Linen garments were worn by the wealthy and noble; cf. Gen. XLI, 42; Ex. XXVIII, 39.
    (21) This is omitted in the Yalkut and Tanhuma.
    (22) Hosea IX, 10; i.e., they separated themselves from Moses' teaching.
    (23) Num. XXV, 1.
    (24) שטות.
    (25) Ibid. 2.
    (26) They called - i.e., they attracted them by their naked bodies.
    (27) Deriving ותקראן from קרי the usual euphemism for semen.
    (28) Having discussed the meaning of one place name, the Talmud proceeds to discuss another: Then came Amalek and fought with Israel in Rephidim - Ex. XVII, 8.
    (29) Jer. XLVII, 3. This is quoted to shew that רפה which he assumes to be the root of Rephidim, connotes weakness.
    (30) Ibid.
    (31) Gen. XXXVII, 1.
    (32) Ibid. 3.
    (33) Ibid. XLVII, 27.
    (34) Ibid. 29.
    (35) I Kings V, 5.
    (36) Ibid. XI, 14.
    (37) Num, XXXI, 8.
    (38) V. ibid, XXV, 1-9: since Israel was thus seduced and punished through his advice, as stated above, he demanded payment.
    (39) So Balaam, demanding a reward, lost his life.
    (40) Joshua XIII, 22.
    (41) As a punishment for wishing to curse Israel he was degraded from a prophet to a soothsayer.
    (42) 'Shipdraggers,' (v. Rashi). Herford, Christianity in the Talmud, p. 48, suggests that Balaam is frequently used in the Talmud as a type for Jesus (v. also pp. 64-70). Though no name is mentioned to shew which woman is meant, the mother of Jesus may be alluded to, which theory is strengthened by the statement that she mated with a carpenter. (The Munich MS. has גבר in the margin instead of גברי, i.e., singular instead of plural.)

    Yebamoth 49b
    or with a sotah,1 the child [born from either union] is no bastard.2 'A menstruant', since betrothal with her is valid because it is said, And her impurity be upon him,3 even at the time of her menstruation betrothal with her is valid.4 'A sotah' also, since her betrothal is valid.5 It has been taught likewise: All agree that if one cohabited with a menstruant or with a sotah or with a widow awaiting the decision of a levir, the child [born from any such union] is no bastard.6 And Abaye?7 — He was in doubt in the case of a widow awaiting the decision of the levir as to whether [the law8 is] in agreement with Rab or with Samuel.9

    SAID R. SIMEON B. AZZAI etc. [A tanna] recited: Simeon b. 'Azzai said, 'I found a roll of genealogical records in Jerusalem and therein was written "So-and-so is a bastard [having been born] from a forbidden union with] a married woman" and therein was also written "The teaching of R. Eliezer b. Jacob is small in quantity10 but thoroughly sifted".11 And in it was also written, "Manasseh slew Isaiah"'.

    Raba said: He12 brought him to trial and then slew him. He12 said to him: Your teacher Moses said, 'For men shall not see Me and live'13 and you said, 'I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up'.14 Your teacher Moses said, 'For what [great nation is there, that hath God so nigh unto them], as the Lord our God is whensoever we call upon him',15 and you said, 'Seek ye the Lord when he may be found'.16 Your teacher Moses said, 'The number of thy days I will fulfil'17 but you said, 'And I will add on to your days fifteen years'.18 'I know', thought Isaiah, 'that whatever I may tell him he will not accept; and should I reply at all, I would only cause him to be a wilful [homicide]'. He thereupon pronounced [the Divine] Name and was swallowed up by a cedar. The cedar, however, was brought and sawn asunder. When the saw reached his month he died. [And this was his penalty] for having said, 'And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips'.19

    [Do not] the contradictions between the Scriptural texts, however, still remain? — 'I saw the Lord',20 [is to be understood] in accordance with what was taught: All the prophets looked into a dim glass,21 but Moses looked through a clear glass.22 As to 'Seek ye the Lord when he may be found [etc.'] one [verse]16 applies to an individual,23 the other24 to a congregation. When [is the time for] an individual? — R. Nahman replied in the name of Rabbah b. Abbuha: The ten days between the New Year25 and the Day of Atonement.25 Concerning the number of thy days I will fulfil,26 Tannaim are in disagreement. For it was taught: The number of thy days I will fulfil26

    - To Next Folio -
    Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files
    [H], a woman known to be, or suspected of being faithless to her husband. V. Num. V, 22ff. Such a woman is forbidden to her husband under the penalty of flogging. (V. supra 11b).
    Even R. Akiba admits in the latter case though the penalty is flogging (v. supra n. 5), and even Simeon the Temanite admits in the former case though the penalty is kareth.
    Lev. XV, 24; emphasis on him.
    The offspring of a forbidden but valid union cannot be considered a bastard.
    Her certain or suspected adultery does not annul her original betrothal to her husband (Rashi) or alternatively, the betrothal of a sotah by her husband after he had divorced her is valid (Tosaf. s.v. [H] a.l.).
    Kid. 68a.
    Why did he omit the mention of the third case?
    As to the validity of her betrothal by a stranger.
    The former regards such betrothal as in. valid and maintains that no divorce is required, while the latter holds that a divorce is necessary (infra 92b). Being uncertain of the validity of such betrothal Abaye could not determine the legitimacy of the child,
    [H] a small measure of capacity (v. Glos.). His rulings in the Mishnah and Baraitha ate only few.
    [H] lit., 'clean', 'pure'. The halachah is always in agreement with R. Eliezer b. Jacob's rulings.
    Manasseh.
    Ex. XXXIII, 20.
    Isa. VI, 1.
    Deut. IV, 7, implying 'at all time'.
    Isa. LV, 6 which implies 'but not always'.
    Ex. XXIII, 26, but will not make any additions.
    II Kings XX, 6.
    Isa. VI. 5.
    Isa. VI, 2.
    In their prophetic visions they, like Isaiah, only imagined that they saw the deity. In reality they did not (v. Rashi).
    In his prophetic insight he knew that the deity could not be seen with mortal eye.
    Who may seek the Lord at stated periods only.
    Deut. IV, 7, implying 'at all time'.
    V. Glos.
    Ex. XXIII, 26, but will not make any additions.
    Shabbath 104b
    MISHNAH. IF ONE WRITES TWO LETTERS IN ONE STATE OF UNAWARENESS,1 HE IS CULPABLE. IF ONE WRITES WITH INK, CHEMICALS, SIKRA,2 KUMOS,3 KANKANTUM,4 OR WITH ANYTHING THAT LEAVES A MARK ON THE ANGLE OF TWO WALLS OR ON THE TWO LEAVES [TABLES] OF A LEDGER, AND THEY [THE TWO LETTERS] ARE READ5 TOGETHER, HE IS CULPABLE. IF ONE WRITES ON HIS FLESH, HE IS CULPABLE: HE WHO SCRATCHES A MARK ON HIS FLESH, R. ELIEZER DECLARES HIM LIABLE TO A SIN-OFFERING; BUT THE SAGES EXEMPT HIM. IF ONE WRITES WITH A FLUID, WITH FRUIT JUICE, WITH ROAD DUST,6 OR WITH WRITER'S POWDER,7 OR WITH8 ANYTHING THAT CANNOT ENDURE, HE IS NOT CULPABLE. [IF ONE WRITES] WITH THE BACK OF HIS HAND, WITH HIS FOOT, WITH HIS MOUTH, OR WITH HIS ELBOW; IF ONE WRITES ONE LETTER NEAR [OTHER] WRITING,9 OR IF ONE WRITES UPON WRITING;10 IF ONE INTENDS WRITING A HETH BUT WRITES TWO ZAYYININ; ONE [LETTER] ON THE GROUND AND ANOTHER ON A BEAM; IF ONE WRITES ON TWO WALLS OF THE HOUSE, OR ON TWO LEAVES OF A LEDGER WHICH ARE NOT TO BE READ11 TOGETHER, HE IS NOT CULPABLE. IF ONE WRITES ONE LETTER AS AN ABBREVIATION,12 R. JOSHUA B. BATHYRA HOLDS HIM LIABLE, WHILST THE SAGES EXEMPT HIM.

    GEMARA. DYo [ink] is deyutha, SaM [chemical] is samma [orpiment]; SIKRA: Rabbah b. Bar Hanah said, Its name is sekarta. Kumos is Kumma. Kankantum: Rabbah b. Bar Hanah said in Samuel's name, The blacking used by shoemakers.13

    OR WITH ANYTHING THAT LEAVES A MARK. What does this add?14 — It adds what was taught by R. Hanina: If he writes it [a divorce] with the fluid of taria,15 or gall-nut [juice], it is valid.16 R. Hiyya taught: If he writes it with dust,17 with a black pigment, or with coal, it is valid.

    HE WHO SCRATCHES A MARK ON HIS FLESH, [etc.] It was taught. R. Eliezer said to the Sages: But did not Ben Stada bring forth witchcraft from Egypt by means of scratches18 [in the form of charms] upon his flesh?19 He was a fool, answered they, and proof cannot be adduced from fools.20

    IF ONE WRITES ONE LETTER NEAR [OTHER] WRITING. Who teaches this? — Said Rabbah son of R. Huna, It does not agree with R. Eliezer. For if [it agreed with] R. Eliezer, — surely he maintained, [for] one [thread] added to woven stuff, he is culpable.21

    IF ONE WRITES UPON WRITING. Who teaches this? Said R. Hisda, It does not agree with R. Judah. For it was taught: If one had to write the [Divine] Name,22 but [erroneously] intended to write Judah [YHWDH]23 but omitted the daleth,24 he can trace his reed [writing pen] over it and sanctify it: this is R. Judah's view;25 but the Sages maintain: The [Divine] Name [thus written] is not of the most preferable.

    It was taught: If one writes one letter and completes a book26 therewith, [or] weaves one thread and completes a garment therewith, he is culpable. Who is the authority? — Said Rabbah son of R. Huna, It is R. Eliezer, who maintained: [For] one [thread] added to woven stuff, he is culpable. R. Ashi said, You may even say that it is the Rabbis: completing is different.

    R. Ammi said: If one writes one letter in Tiberias and another in Sepphoris,27 he is culpable: it is one [act of] writing but that it lacks being brought together. But we learnt: IF ONE WRITES ON TWO WALLS OF A HOUSE, OR ON TWO LEAVES OF A LEDGER WHICH CANNOT BE READ TOGETHER, HE IS NOT CULPABLE? — There the act of being brought together is lacking;28 but here the act of bringing together is not lacking.29

    A Tanna taught: If one corrects one letter, he is culpable. Now, seeing that if one writes one letter he is not culpable. if he [merely] corrects one letter he is culpable?30 — Said R. Shesheth: The circumstances here are e.g., that he removes the roof [i.e.. the upper bar] of a heth and makes two zayyin thereof. Raba said: E.g.. he removes the projection of a daleth and makes a resh thereof.31

    A Tanna taught: If one intended writing one letter,

    - To Next Folio -
    Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files
    V. supra 67b.
    A kind of red paint.
    Ink prepared with gum.
    Vitriol used as an ingredient of ink.
    Lit., — lead'.
    Mixed with water to produce a weak ink. — Others: in the dust of the roads, i.e., one traces writing therein with his finger.
    The refuse of writing material, or the coloured sand strewn over the writing (Rashi and Jast.). Others: in writer's powder.
    Or 'in'.
    I.e., near a letter already written, so as to complete the word.
    To make it clearer.
    Lit., 'lead'.
    I.e., a letter followed by a short stroke or point to indicate that it is an abbreviation, e.g. [H].
    In the above the Hebrew of the Mishnah is translated into the more familiar Aramaic used by the amoraim. V. Git., Sonc. ed., p. 71, n. 2.
    V. p. 492. n. 5.
    A sort of ink. Rashi: either fruit juice or rain water. V. Low. Graph. Requisiten, pp. 158, 161. v. Meg.. Sonc. ed., p. 103.
    Hence it must be regarded as durable and therefore involves culpability in connection with the Sabbath.
    So cur. edd. Rashi reads: with lead.
    Incisions.
    Which proves that scratches are important. and so one should be liable therefore. In the uncensored text this passage follows: Was he then the son of Stada: surely he was the son of Pandira? — Said R. Hisda: The husband was Stada, the paramour was Pandira. But the husband was Pappos b. Judah? — His mother was Stada. But his mother was Miriam the hairdresser? — It is as we say in Pumbeditha: This one has been unfaithful to (lit., 'turned away from' — satath da) her husband. — On the identity of Ben Stada v. Sanh., Sonc. ed., p. 456, n. 5.
    His action was too unusual to furnish a criterion.
    V. infra 105a. The same principle applies here too.
    The Tetragrammaton; the reference is to a Scroll of the Law, in which the Tetragrammaton must be written with sacred intention.
    In this word the waw (W) is a vowel.
    Thus writing YHWH-the Tetragrammaton-after all, but without sacred intention.
    Thus he counts retracing as writing.
    Rashi: of one of the Hebrew Scriptures.
    Two towns of Galilee.
    Before the two letters can be read as one the paper must be cut away. so that they can be put together.
    E.g.. if the letters are written on the edges of two boards.
    Surely not.
    In a Scroll of one of the Biblical books. This constitutes a complete labour, because one may not permit a Scroll of Scripture to remain with an error.

    sve puno mržnje prema kršćanima.
    Ti nisi ono što jesi sad, nego ono što tek možeš biti! Ti si trenutno žir, ali smisao tvog života je biti hrast! ~ T. Ivančić

    יֵשׁ מֵאַיִן

  17. #17
    Herman Wouk, the very popular Jewish writer,98 describes the influence of the Talmud as follows:

    The Talmud is to this day the circulating heart’s blood of the Jewish religion. Whatever laws, customs, or ceremonies we observe — whether we are Orthodox, Conservative, Reform or merely spasmodic sentimentalists — we follow the Talmud. It is our common law.99

    As a 16-year-old, during one of my visits to the Citizens Council offices, I had found a book called The Jewish Religion: Its Influence Today by Elizabeth Dilling.100 It interested me because the large format of the book contained complete photocopied pages from parts of the Talmud officially compiled by Jewish scholars. I remember skipping Dilling’s commentary and going right to the translations. One of the first passages I read really surprised me. It said,

    A heathen [Gentile] who pries into the Torah [and other Jewish Scriptures] is condemned to death, for it is written, it is our inheritance, not theirs. (Sanhedrin 59a)101

    If a 16-year-old boy reads something forbidden like that, he is certain to read on. The passage was completely alien to everything I had always understood about religion. Why would they not want all men to read their holy words the same way Christians want to “spread the good news?” Just what is in these scriptures that would oblige the Jews to kill a Gentile that read them? Why would public knowledge of Jewish scriptures be dangerous to Jews? I went to the library and found some old translations of parts of the Talmud. It was not long before I came across other, even more amazing passages such as:

    Balaam [Jesus] is raised from the dead and being punished in boiling hot semen. Those who mock the words of the Jewish sages and sin against Israel are boiled in hot excrement. (57a Gittin)102

    When I asked my Jewish friend’s rabbi about the passage, he told me that Balaam was not Jesus. He sounded very convincing, but that very evening, I looked up Balaam in the Jewish Encyclopedia and was shocked to read that Balaam was a pseudonym for Jesus. Because Christian scholars periodically obtained copies of the Talmud, Talmudic scribes hoped to deceive them by using the name Balaam to denote Jesus.

    In The Jewish Encyclopedia, under the heading “Balaam,” it says,

    “…the pseudonym ‘Balaam’ given to Jesus in Sanhedrin 106b and Gittin 57a.”103

    The Jewish Encyclopedia under the heading “Balaam,” it says,

    “…the pseudonym ‘Balaam’ given to Jesus in Sanhedrin 106b and Gittin 57a.”

    The Talmud repeatedly uses obscure words to denote Gentiles with an assortment of names such as Egyptian, heathen, Cuthean, and idolater. In the most popular English-language translation of the Talmud, called the Soncino edition, the practice is illustrated by the fifth footnote of the book of Sanhedrin. It reads,

    “Cuthean (Samaritan) was here substituted for the original goy…”104

    Christians are sometimes referred to by the code word “Min” or “Minim.”105 The footnotes of the Soncino edition of the Talmud as well as passages in the Jewish Encyclopedia blatantly mention this intentional artifice.

    The Encyclopedia Judaica also notes that,

    In rabbinical literature the distinction between gentile (goy, akkum) and Christian (Nazeri) has frequently been obscured by textual alterations necessitated by the vigilance of censors. Thus ‘Egyptian, ‘Amalekite,’ ‘Zadokite (Sadducee),’ and ‘Kuti’ (Samaritan) often stands in place of the original Nazeri, as well as goy, akkum, etc. Probably when Resh Lakish stated that a gentile (akkum, etc. in existing texts) who observed the Sabbath [Saturday rites] is punishable by death (Sanhedrin, 58b), he had in mind Christians … Numerous anti-Christian polemic passages only make real sense after Nazeri has been restored in place of the spurious Kuti or Zadokite.”106

    In other passages in the Talmud I discovered a possible reason why some of the Talmud’s writers had forbidden Gentiles to read it. The Talmud’s words are vitriolic:

    • Only Jews are human. [Gentiles] are animals. (Baba Mezia 114a-114b.)107

    • For murder, whether of a Cuthean [Gentile] by a Cuthean, or of an Israelite by a Cuthean, punishment is incurred; but of a Cuthean by an Israelite, there is no death penalty. (Sanhedrin 57a)108

    • Even the best of the [Gentiles] should be killed. ( Babylonian Talmud)109

    • If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there. (Moed Kattan 17a.)110

    • Gentiles’ flesh is as the flesh of asses and whose issue is like the issue of horses.111

    • If a heathen [Gentile] hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed. Hit-ting a Jew is hitting God. (Sanhedrin 58b.)112

    • If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no li-ability; but if an ox of a Canaanite [Gentile] gores an ox of an Israelite…the payment is to be in full. (Baba Kamma 37b.)113

    • If a Jew finds an object lost by a heathen [Gentile] it does not have to be returned. (Baba Mezia 24a; Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b.)114

    • God will not spare a Jew who ‘marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean [Gentile]… (Sanhedrin 76a.)115

    • What a Jew obtains by theft from a Cuthean [Gentile] he may keep. (Sanhedrin 57a.)116

    • [Gentiles] are outside the protection of the law and God has ‘exposed their money to Israel.’ (Baba Kamma 37b.)117

    • Jews may use lies (‘subterfuges’) to circumvent a [Gentile]. (Baba Kamma 113a.)118

    • All [Gentile] children are animals. (Yebamoth 98a.)119

    • [Gentiles] prefer sex with cows. (Abodah Zarah 22a-22b.)120

    • The vessels of [Gentiles], do they not impart a worsened flavor to the food cooked in them? (Abodah Zarah 67b.)121

    It astonished me to read such unmitigated hatred from the chief writings of the Jewish religion. It was obvious that these quotations were all authentic, because the copies I read were published by Jewish organizations. I could not find any rational explanation for such writings being in the Jewish sacred books. In fact, it became clear to me that most Americans do not even know that such writings even exist.

  18. #18
    Vlastelinka ZGabriel avatar
    Datum registracije
    Mar 2012
    Lokacija
    čudesni oblaci
    Poruke
    18,889
    Blog Entries
    4
    ajd molim te nemoj stavljati plahte tuđih tekstova, i to na engleskom. otvori si antisemitsku temu i raspali.

    edit: ja sam citirala tekstove za koje si ti stavio reference. ono što tvrde autori u tvom upisu se ne spominje u originalnom tekstu.
    Posljednje uređivanje od ZGabriel : 24-09-2018 at 21:22
    Ti nisi ono što jesi sad, nego ono što tek možeš biti! Ti si trenutno žir, ali smisao tvog života je biti hrast! ~ T. Ivančić

    יֵשׁ מֵאַיִן

  19. #19
    Citiraj Prvotno napisano od ZGabriel Vidi poruku
    ajd molim te nemoj stavljati plahte tuđih tekstova, i to na engleskom. otvori si antisemitsku temu i raspali.

    edit: ja sam citirala tekstove za koje si ti stavio reference. ono što tvrde autori u tvom upisu se ne spominje u originalnom tekstu.
    Ti si otvorila temu o Judaizmu. Ja samo participiram na način na koji ja mislim da je najprikladnije za mene. A to je za tebe antisemitizam. Kad već govoriš o "originalnom tekstu, daj link na na tu originalnost..a usput slobodno objasni zašto misliš da je to originalan tekst a ono što sam ja zalijepio nije originalno nego valjda neka krivotvorina poput "protokola sionskih mudraca", eh? Si sigurna da si ti katolkinja? Ako jesi (ja nisam siguran da si katolkinja), evo onda malo i katoličkih, pardon.."antisemitskih" izvora

    Gregory IX. Condemned the Talmud as containing “every kind of vileness and blasphemy against Christian doctrine.”

    Benedict XIII. His Bull on the Jews (1450) declared, “The heresies, vanities and errors of the Talmud prevent the Jews from knowing the truth.”

    Innocent IV. Burned the Talmud in 1233 as a book of evil.

    John XXII. Banned the Talmud in 1322

    Julius III. Papal Bull Contra Hebreos retinentes Libros (1554) ordered the Talmud burnt “everywhere.”

    Paul IV. Bull Cum Nimis Absurdum (1555) powerfully condemned Jewish usury and anti-Christian activities.

    Pius IV. Condemned Jewish genocidal writings.

    Pius V. Expelled all Jews from papal states. (1569)

    Gregory XIII. Said in a Papal Bull of 1581, “Moved by an intense hatred of the members of Christ, they continue to plan horrible crimes against the Christian religion with daily increasing audacity.”

    Clement VIII. Condemned Jewish genocidal writings.


    http://www.talmudunmasked.com/index.htm

    Lijepim tekstove na engleskom jer odgovarajuće literature nema na hrvatskom. A i taj tvoj "original" je bio na engleskom.

    Razlog za moju participaciju na ovoje temi je uvjerenje da Židovi/Judaizam nemaju ništa sa kršćanstvom iz jednostavnog razloga što Židovi nisu prihvatili Kršćanstvo iako im je bilo prvima "ponuđeno" od njihovog sunarodnjaka Isusa. Ako ne prihvatitiš nešto automatski si protiv toga. Pa priča o "zajedničkom korijenu" ne drži vodu.
    Posljednje uređivanje od Picaferaj : 24-09-2018 at 23:55

  20. #20
    Vlastelinka ZGabriel avatar
    Datum registracije
    Mar 2012
    Lokacija
    čudesni oblaci
    Poruke
    18,889
    Blog Entries
    4
    Citiraj Prvotno napisano od Picaferaj Vidi poruku
    blablabla
    molim te, navedi nekog Papu koji tvrdi da je Stari zavjet blasfemija.
    a možeš si dati truda pa prevesti tekstove koje lijepiš, za one koji ne govore engleski. vjerujem da ti to neće biti teško, s obzirom da toliko voliš istinu.

    usput, svojim pamfletima si odveo temu u krivom smjeru. ali kako nikog drugog to i ne zanima, možemo prestati ovdje.
    Ti nisi ono što jesi sad, nego ono što tek možeš biti! Ti si trenutno žir, ali smisao tvog života je biti hrast! ~ T. Ivančić

    יֵשׁ מֵאַיִן

+ Odgovori na temu

Pravila pisanja poruke

  • Ne možeš otvoriti novu temu
  • Ne možeš ostaviti odgovor
  • Ne možeš stavljati dodatke
  • Ne možeš uređivati svoje postove